"Come on in. It's raining," called out purple-shirt-wearing SEIU members on Oct. 5, under drizzle and next to sloshing cars on Sunset Road.

"Anyone want to come in and talk about patient care? Come on in, guys. Any takers?"

Just a strip of muddy gravel separated a line of about 30 SEIU workers from about 80 hospital-friendly managers, nurses and physicians. Union members started calling on individuals they recognized.

Hospital supporters quickly passed out and held up red posters that read: "Shame on the SEIU."

In this year's hospital contract negotiations, public displays like these are ramping up — especially when it comes to the Valley Health System, which is owned by Universal Health Systems Inc. (UHS). The system's Valley and Desert Springs hospitals are negotiating new contracts for nurses and medical technicians.

But grabbing public support during negotiations is harder in hospital disputes than it is for, say, a grocery store, according to a UNLV expert.

"I don't usually choose which hospital I go to, I go wherever my physician has privileges," said David Hames, who teaches about union negotiations. "I can go to Vons instead of Smith's pretty readily. I think it's harder to try to boycott hospitals or honor pickets."

Rallies alone do not wear down one side or the other at the bargaining table, he said. And involving legislators — which Valley Health System and the SEIU have each done — may or may not help either side.

"It's election time, so legislators if they're up for re-election have to listen or at least give the impression that they're listening," Hames said.

On Oct. 5, Valley Health System officials were delivering a petition that denounced the tactics used by the SEIU to make its hospitals look bad in the public eye. The union in September released two reports about local hospitals.

The union is also negotiating with HCA-owned Sunrise Hospital and with University Medical Center. It wrapped up negotiations with the St. Rose Dominican hospitals in May, and those hospitals look better off in the recent union reports.

At the rally, Valley Health System supporters shouted: "Shame On You, Shame On You, Shame On You."

The SEIU matched: "Come On In, Come On In, Come On In."

The union continued chanting over the two short speeches given by the hospital side, so the words — even amplified by a microphone — could not be heard.

The hospital side dropped off its petition denouncing the reports, then left in two buses.

That left union members gratified. They had set up a room with chairs and an overhead projector, ready to debate the hospital.

"Obviously, this was just another game, another UHS management tactic," said Jane McAlevey, the local's president.

Dr. Flip Homansky, medical director for Valley Health System, said "in a different setting, I would sit down one-on-one with them."

Though his speech was not heard, Homansky said he made eye contact with some of the union's supporters and feels they understood his point.

"I understand the negotiating process, and I'm not trying to get the union to shut up," he said.

The hospital petition and a letter forwarded to legislators says the union "cherry picks the information to create a convenient, reality-challenged story."

"I don't even think they believe (the reports), but the words still hurt," Homansky said. "I try not to be angry, but I think that they've got to understand that words are powerful and it confuses the public, and it's just a ploy that they use for their contracts."

The union has its own petition, denouncing "illegal tactics" used by UHS negotiators.

The first union report, issued Sept. 12, graded local hospitals for quality, using data voluntarily reported to the federal government. The second, issued Sept. 21, reported contributions to the hospitals' home offices, as reported to the state.

Officials at government agencies have said the numbers — though not made up — were taken out of context and were in some ways misleading.